[Johnnys 101] So You Have Begun to Stan A Johnnys Group – All the basics you need to know

So… you have begun to stan a Johnnys group. Welcome! It’s going to be a very sparkly and emotional ride, but let me give you some tips to help you start out.

This is a new series on my blog called “Johnny’s 101”, where I answer as much in depth about the infamous Japanese boyband agency Johnny’s and associates as I possibly can. As a bit of background, I have been a Johnnys fan for over 10 years now, and have also written my graduate school thesis on the business of Johnny’s. I don’t know everything (as Johnny’s can be mysterious in a lot of ways) but I hope I can give an insight into Johnny’s that you might not know yet.

But first… What is Johnnys?

Johnnys is an all-male talent agency founded in the 1960s by Johnny Kitagawa. The agency is mostly known for training boys (called Johnny’s Juniors) in different parts of the entertainment industry (singing, dancing, acting, etc.) from a young age by having them back dance for the debuted groups, seeing which ones are popular, and then debuting a select few. They aren’t just simply boybands but are involved in many different activities in the entertainment industry in Japan, such as television, movies, fashion, and even novel writing and newscasting. Some of the most popular groups that have come out of Johnnys are SMAP and Arashi.

Now with that out of the way, let’s get to today’s topic which is basics of the agency and the fandom that you should know as a new fan (and maybe a reminder or refresher for those OG fans out there!)

1. Johnny’s is extremely strict (as are the fans) and behind the times

Johnny’s hasn’t digitalized yet (even worse than the rest of Japan… which is saying something) which means there are no YouTube videos or digital music downloads. Hard copies only, my friends! They are super strict with what is uploaded to social media and media sites as well. Around 2014 or so is when they actually put their artist’s pictures on their OWN website and their fan club was super analog until about 2 years ago (hard copy tickets, paying via bank transfer and all) Shocker isn’t it? In my opinion, this is a huge barrier to growth for them, especially internationally. BUT! With that being said recently they have made some huge changes, like Johnny’s official shop goods being sold online within Japan, revamp of the online fan club system, and especially so with the juniors YouTube channel, which is promising. My question though: is it too slow? Let me know what you think!

As for the fans, concert manners and sharing media online is policed pretty strictly. This varies from group to group though, as each fan base has a different “culture” so to speak. An example of this is with my favorite group NEWS, concert spoilers during the tour are kinda a big no-no, as NEWS themselves said a few years back they prefer all the fans to be surprised, so…. you won’t see the set list and hardly any detailed spoilers until after the final show is finished. It’s not to “end game” level, but we protect from spoilers as much as possible. MC is perfectly fine to spoil so bring all the weird things they say!

2. Johnnys is based in Japan and caters mostly to a Japanese audience

Johnny’s is based in Japan and caters to Japanese fans within Japan. I see a lot of fans getting upset that Johnny’s doesn’t do much for international fans and say “Johnny’s hate international fans” but at this point in time with the current stage of the agency, I think these thoughts are misguided. I could make an entirely separate blog post about this (comment below if you want it!), but to sum it up the Japanese music industry is #2 in the world only after the United States. Because of this, Johnny’s can make enough money just within Japan no problem only catering to Japanese fans. Why should they spend the money to expand overseas when they dominate the Japanese market and make enough money anyway? Even fans inside of Japan have a hard time getting concert tickets even when they are in the fan club and the artists only have enough hours in a day, so how can they expand and think of going overseas when they are at capacity inside of Japan? If you think about it that way, you can see why Johnny’s wouldn’t want to cater to foreign fans, as they have their hands full inside of Japan already. Does this mean they shouldn’t share media outside of Japan? No, I think YouTube and social media is essential, but in terms of an international fan club and translating things into many languages, it’s not going to work for a long time and not a good choice business wise. They first need to get the digital infrastructure up and running in Japan first.

3. The Twitter community is probably the strongest to find fan friends (Japanese and foreign)and get the latest information.

Back in the day, LiveJournal used to be the community of choice but in the past 5 years or so that community has pretty much died and everyone is on Twitter. If you want to make fandom friends, make a twitter account and get started by talking with other fans! Japanese fans are also heavy users of Twitter (as Twitter is the dominant social media platform in Japan besides Instagram) so you can get almost any piece of information you need on there. For the most part, us fans are extremely friendly and are more than happy to point you in the direction of what you see looking for. Just be sure to respect the other fans and don’t assume that the way things are done in your country are done that way in Japan and in Johnny’s.

4. No Johnny’s talents have individual Twitter or Instagram accounts or even social media

Okay okay, there is 1 exception that literally happened when I was writing this, which is Yamapi! He was on Weibo, but then on May 16th, he made an Instagram, a Johnny’s first. In general, though, Johnnys do not have social media (including youtube… except the Junior’s channel I mentioned above!) and their “blogs”, called Jwebs, are behind a paywall and are only in Japanese. This poses an interesting dynamic, as the world has moved rapidly towards an era of social media and digital music downloads and streaming, in which Johnnys is pretty archaic. So, if you want to find any information about the group or see their music videos you will have to go on a hunt around the internet.

 

Did I miss anything? What information would you like as a new Johnnys fan or as an OG fan what advice would you give to new fans?

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[REVIEW] NEWS Arena Tour 2018 EPCOTIA – DVD/ Blu-Ray


From the world of “NEVERLAND” in 2017, in 2018 NEWS takes you on a journey into outer space onboard the EPCOTIA Liner – flight 009; NEWS hosting as the 4 flight attendants. A tour based around their album released in March 2018, NEWS once again immerses you into the theme of the album, which has been a “thing” for them since their 2015 album “WHITE”.

In this review, I will be discussing 2 categories – Theme and DVD contents – to give an overall rundown of the DVD itself and if its worth it to buy.

Theme – Outer Space??

Let’s begin with Theme! To be honest, I was skeptical of this space theme from the minute I saw the names of the songs on the album that were basically all a bunch of space themed words thrown together like “BLACKHOLE” and “UFO”. Nothing could top NEVERLAND (tour and album) for me… it was the perfect theming for a group like NEWS who is bright and has bouncy songs with some rock thrown in from time to time, so EPCOTIA had a lot to live up to… and I think NEWS was feeling the pressure too.  Before going into the tour itself in April, I liked about only 50% of the songs but after seeing the tour in Hiroshima I was hooked on about 90% of them for the performance.

You can tell NEWS made an extensive effort to separate NEVERLAND from EPCOTIA as themes, and to not make it a continuation (despite NEWS doing theming for N-E-W-S for the next few years) . NEVERLAND had a more steam punk feel to it with the costumes and had a more typical stage setup for NEWS, while EPCOTIA was a center stage and more “futuristic” with monochrome theming and costumes, lots of strobe light affects and a center stage where they really pushed the limits with what they could do with it. (Bungee jumping around the stage in the middle of the concert, hanging from the celling during the opening and having a huge model space shuttle on the stage? Now THAT’S entertainment!) I felt they had a higher budget this year as compared to previous years, as it was their 15th anniversary and probably after the success of the NEVERLAND theming the year previously.

Also, on a side note, the tickets were adorable with “Boarding Pass” written on the back of them with the EPCOTIA logo on it … the theming was on point the entire time from beginning to end. I think with NEVERLAND they pushed the limits for theming where they had fallen short with QUARTETTO the year previous and then with EPCOTIA, they really took what they learned with NEVERLAND and ran with it full speed ahead.

CONTENTS – less than previous DVD’s?

Credit to Johnnys Entertainment Inc.

The contents of the DVD are very straight forward this time around, containing only the final day of the tour in Saitama Arena in May 2018 plus “EPCOTIA MULTI ANGLES LIVE”, which special to just the limited edition of the DVD. The only difference between the Regular Edition and the Limited Edition is this “Multi Angles live” for both the Blu-ray and DVD versions. Click HERE for all the information on what the DVD contains (Japanese Only).

This time the DVD didn’t have as many extras as in the past… more than likely because NEWS had 3 “tours” in 2018 (EPCOTIA Arena Tour,  15th Anniversary Live STRAWBERRY, and EPCOTIA – encore- Dome Tour)  and I predict that because of this, they are wanting to release the arena tour but for a lower price point so that they can release the other concerts later on in 2019. (A double sided DVD between Strawberry and EPCOTIA – encore-? You heard it being called here first, folks!)

I thought the Multi Angles live was a smart move on Johnny’s part to keep the budget low: Take footage of a handful of songs that they already had recorded at the concert and release it at different angles. Essentially, they have cameras pointed at each of the members during the concert at all times and they compiled that footage of 4 of the popular songs, LIVE,  BLACKHOLE, Erotica, and U R not alone for each member’s angle. Not just that, but you don’t have to choose just 1 member for the entire time, you can choose different members for different parts of the song, letting you control the editing of the song and how you want to see it. I thought you could only choose 1 member for the entire song, but I was happily surprised you can choose the angle at each point in the song. Very interactive, as there are so many combinations you can make between the 4 members’ parts.

“Happy Ending”

Overall, Outer Space wasn’t a theme that I was extremely excited about but the execution and how they kept to theming the entire time was extremely impressive. NEVERLAND is close to my heart and for me, unfortunately, EPCOTIA did not surpass that. The content of the DVD was less than previous years, but hopefully there will be some releases of the other 2018 concerts later in 2019 to make up for it. (My wallet is READY!) 

If you can get your hands on the Limited Edition of this DVD, I think it is worth it for the multi-angles lives, but the Regular Edition doesn’t have much to offer besides the actual concert.

 With that being said though,  I can’t wait to see what they have in store for the VR themed “WORLDISTA” for 2019!

6 Things to Organize and Store Your Johnny’s Goods

Becoming a fan or collector of anything raised the question of how exactly to your organize all of the goods accumulated from said activity. Johnny’s (and other idol groups) have many types of goods to collect with many different high and low end options to help you organize them. Over the years I have collected and used my fair share of these organization items, so here are 6 products to help organize and store your Johnny’s goods.

1. Ticket Holder

Johnnys has now started to go away from the paper ticketing system for some of their artists in favor of digital tickets, but there are still many shows that have paper tickets to collect. A regular photo album to store all of your tickets in is ideal, rather than spending money on an expensive “ticket holder”, and it works just as well. I have another post I wrote a while back where I talk about this particular item, so check it out HERE if you are interested!

2. Uchiwa Storage Box

Now, you might not think that this is revolutionary, but I am telling you that this has changed my storage game for all of my uchiwas – which used to be shoved into a drawer, laying flat and taking up too much space. This particular one is from a series of idol storage/ protective goods that the “3 Coins” shop (or 300 yen shop) produced in Japan a few years back. It was only supposed to be a limited run, but it was so popular that they brought it back permanently and added more to the line. This uchiwa box in particular I wanted because I needed a place to place my slightly too large uchiwa collection I’ve accumulated over the years. It can safely fit about 20 uchiwas inside and though it’s a bit flimsy at times, it does the job for 300 yen ($3 USD) and keeps your uchiwas tucked away together safely in one place.

3. Streamer Holder

Credit to Tower Records Japan

Credit to Tower Records Japan

This is the newest addition to my goods storage and another game changer for me. Over the years I had collected so many streamers from concerts that they also ended up in my “Johnnys goods drawer of doom and chaos”. One day while browsing in Tower Records with a friend, I spotted this and I was mind blown. I bought it right away and now my streamers are organized and the holder itself looks really pretty on my shelf… and also looks like I put effort into storing my Johnnys goods, instead of leaving a pile of them sitting at the back of aforementioned drawer.

You can also find this at the 300 yen store, but the one that I decided to buy was a bit pricer and from Tower Records for just over 1000 yen or $10 USD. It is sturdier than the 3 Coin store one and is magnetic to hold the opening shut.

4. Photo Album for Shop Photos

Shop photos are one of those staple items that all Johnnys fans eventually purchase. Over the years I have accumulated hundreds of photos and have organized them in these photo albums from the 100 yen store. I believe these particular ones are from CanDo, but any photo album of your choice will due! I personally don’t like inviting a ton of money into storage for shop photos, because I have a lot of them, so I just hop on over to the 100 yen store and get mine. LOFT and Tokyu Hands will also have them, but for a higher price point.

I personally organize mine by member and group, so I have individual albums for each member (for NEWS I buy all the photosets at the concert) and then I have a separate album for group photos. Feel free to organize yours however you please!

5. Glass Cup for Showcasing Penlights

Once again, going back that “Johnnys goods drawer of doom”, all of my penlights also used to be in there. After a while, I wanted to proudly display my favorite ones in my room to always look at, but I didn’t have a way to keep them standing up. So, I be-bopped my way over to the 100 yen store (more specifically Daiso) and saw they had so many options for mini cups that are the perfect size to place your penlights inside of them to stand them up. For my larger penlights, I have a bit larger glasses but for the most part they are the smallest glasses I could find there.

6. Binder for storing magazine scans

If you are an idol fan, you are probably buying magazines to read interviews with your favorite entertainers. Some people want to keep their magazines in restive condition, but after you buy them year after year, they start to pile up. After the first time I moved inside of Japan, I realized I had accumulated WAY too magazines over those 2 years and decided to cut them up and take out only the pages that I wanted to keep. It would reduce space in my apartment and make it easier to sift through all of the scans that I wanted. I am still not done, but I have accumulated a large amount of binders filled with magazine scans that I have cut out over the years. The magazines come in all different sizes, so I normally pick a normal size A4 binder with extra pocket refill, as well as an XL wide size binder meant for fashion magazines to make sure all of my bases are covered.  Below is the Rakuten link to the ones that I have bought, but you can also go to any stationary store, like LOFT or Tokyu Hands to buy it. I tend to buy in bulk when I buy them, so its cheaper to buy them on Rakuten. If you are not looking to buy over 1-2 of them, LOFT and Tokyu Hands is probably the best to buy them at. Make sure you don’t forget the re-fills for them! They only come with maybe 10 pockets inside.

A4-S Size Binder

Magazine Binder

This is an amazing way to organize all of your magazines without the extra room and weight attached!


What would you be interested in buying? Are there any other goods that you don’t know how organize or store? Let me know in the comments below!

Playing in a Magic: The Gathering Tournament for the first time – Hareruya Osaka’s first “Ladies One” tournament

A few months ago, my boyfriend introduced me to Magic: The Gathering and was surprised that I had never heard of it, as I am from the country that it was from. As an adult, I was never really into card games, or games in general, but as a kid I used to play Yu-Gi-Oh! and Pokemon – though probably not by the proper rules. My interest in games waned as I got into High School and got into Johnnys, anime, dramas, fashion, and cheerleading before deciding to pursue Japanese and business in University, and then eventually moving to Japan…. which you can say is THE land of card games. I would say that the majority of the people around me didn’t really play card games, or weren’t games in general, which also contributed to the waning interest. That changed when by boyfriend asked if I wanted to learn how to play and I gladly accepted, as I wanted to know what this world was about.

We started to play together at my apartment on the living room table with 2 decks he purchased just for that purpose, and then  about a month and a half ago we went to a card shop and I bought my first starter deck (DINOSAURS FTW!) and from there he helped me add some cards to it to boost it a bit. It is still a budget deck, probably only spending a total of around 3000 yen in (about $30 USD) which included the initial deck + some modifications to it so that I can play in a tournament.

Yesterday, I had the pleasure of playing in my first ever Magic: The Gathering tournament!

No, I did not win by any means… in fact I lost every game that I played… but the experience was the most important part. This was Hareruya Osaka’s first “Ladies One” tournament and there ended up being 6 of us playing. It was a casual, Ladies only tournament and it was honestly a lot more fun that I thought it would be! I was extremely nervous, as this was my first time and I know how competitive these types of events can be, but all of the players were extremely nice and helpful to a newbie like me, explaining everything to me as the games went on and asking if I wanted any advice on how to play.  They were overjoyed that there were more than 4 people participating, so that the tournament could happen, especially since there doesn’t seem to be many female players in Japan. A lot of them had gotten into the game through their significant other, like me, so it was nice to chat about that and about women in the game in-between rounds, how long we had been playing, and how we got into it.

I’m glad that my first tournament was a ladies tournament, as it gave me more confidence to play and get stronger seeing other women play and be into a seemingly pretty male-dominated game. I think if I had played in a regular tournament, I would have been a lot more nervous and would have wanted to practice a lot more before I entered into a tournament for the first time, but this was a perfect gateway for me into playing more competitively, especially in Japan where the language isn’t my first language. I honestly hope that this event becomes a regular thing, as it would be nice to play against other women again and make it more accessible to other women who were like me and dont have the confidence to play in regular tournaments yet.

Do you play card games? What do you think about women in card games? Should there be more ladies events to make it more accessible to women? Let me know in the comments below!

NEWS – NEVERLAND Album Review | nihonchique

Who doesn’t want to be a kid forever and go to Neverland? For NEWS’s 2017 album release on March 22nd, 2017, they chose “Neverland” as the theme and made it unique to them, complete with a steampunk feel.

General Overview

The album is a fusion of narration and regular songs. The songs themselves don’t follow a particular pattern or genre, except for the title song “NEVERLAND” and the final song written by GreeeeN “U R not alone”. The narration takes you through NEWS’s NEVERLAND and introduces different parts to it, such as the jobs that the members of NEWS have in NEVERLAND, the 7 elements that make up NEVERLAND, and how to enter into NEVERLAND. The album serves as an introduction to and the base of their 2017 tour NEWS LIVE TOUR 2017 NEVERLAND, in which they continue the theme through.

Editions

First Press Limited Edition

-16 songs
-28-page booklet with special packaging.
-DVD disc containing 「NEVERLAND EPISODE. 0」and the making.
-Key to enter NEVERLAND
-ID for a special NEVERLAND streaming video online. (Limited time available to watch)

Regular Edition

-16 songs from the limited edition +4 member solo songs (Total 20 songs)
-20-page booklet.

Stand-out Songs

NEVERLAND

The title song of the album. This one has a strong impact with the tribal-like sounds fused with an almost Arabic like sounds, combined with the tempo changes. The one part that I don’t like is the little children chanting the 7 different elements in the middle of the song, as I think it loses the strong impact but I understand that they probably wanted to speed up and slow down the song a lot and have a variety of that.

Brightest

This was NEWS venturing into a more dance/ club music-like genre. I like how it wasn’t really intense, but it had a really catchy beat. Every time I hear this song, I want to get up and dance! Though it was a bit fast, the lyrics were really easy to remember because of the beat of the song.  Both this one and “Silent Love” I could envision being played in a club or being used for dance choreography.

Silent Love

This has to be my second favorite song on this album besides “U R not alone”. Though I don’t know the genre of this song, it is a genre that has been popular over the past year or so around the world, so it was nice to see NEWS incorporating that into their music. I think it’s the chorus that really makes this song, combined with the light rap by Massu.

U R not alone

Written by GReeeeN for NEWS, I thought this song was one of the most impactful songs on the album. I have a translation of it here on my blog, so if you want to hear more on my thoughts about it, click here! All the feel for this song… all the feels.

Final Thoughts

“NEVERLAND” has been one of my favorite NEWS albums since their “NEWS” album in 2013. 2016’s “QUARTETTO” had a theme going on, but I thought they didn’t quite take it all the way through the album, to the tour, etc. This year with NEVERLAND though, they stepped it up and took the entire theme through the album, to the tour and really immersed the fans into their version of “NEVERLAND”, which turned out to kind of be a combination of Neverland and Wonderland, I thought. (Yes NEWS, there is a difference between Neverland and Wonderland.) Though the theme wasn’t perfect, I liked how the narration on the album told us a story about the world and then fully immersed us into it during the tour. After a while, I stopped listening to the narration parts of the album because I knew them by heart, but for theming purposes, I thought it was amazing. Johnny’s always does an amazing job of theming and I hope that NEWS will continue to do themed albums like this every so often!

For the solo songs this year, I wasn’t too impressed overall. Shige’s “Ayame” performance during the tour was amazing, but as just stand-alone music none of them really captured my attention like previous years. Tegoshi’s “I’m coming” was a bit of a surprise and the first time I heard it I literally spit my tea out while I was drinking it thinking “So it REALLY was THAT meaning….are children really going to come to see this live??” (I swear I am not a prude, I was just generally surprised at the different direction that Tegoshi was going in this year.) Massu also took a different direction this year with his cover of “Forever Mine” which was beautiful and really showcased his singing abilities, but I miss his dance songs (as I tend to gravitate towards dance music and more upbeat music naturally… unless its “White Love Story”… I will forever love and cry at that song. No shame.) So, if I had to pick a favorite this year it would be Koyama’s solo “Nyanta” because of the light rock feel to it and the theme of his song, which was hit cat of 19 years, who passed away in December of last year.

What did you all think of this album this year? Let me know in the comments below!

5 Popular Non-Japanese JVloggers You Have To Watch!

YouTube has become a huge platform for people all over the world to share their life and their experiences, and Japan is not an exception! Coming to live in Japan can be an overwhelming experience, and one that many people around would jump at the chance to have, but if you don’t have the resources to yet or want more information before you take the big leap, experiencing Japan through the eyes of someone living there already is the perfect alternative to actually doing it yourself. I watch a lot of YouTube myself, and despite me living in Japan already, I like seeing Japan through the eyes of other people living here every so often. Here are my 5 picks for Non-Japanese JVloggers that you have to watch!

1.Taylor R.

I found Taylor R about a year and a half ago, right after she went through her change from “Cutesy-dolly Tay-Tay” to her current, more quirky self. Her videos are the ones out of all of these JVloggers that I look forward to the most because of her quirky personality and her fearless to trying things that are outside of the box (like copying Kylie Jenner’s instagram feed for a week, walking around Ginza with her DIY designer items, like boots and a Chanel bag, etc.) that sometimes don’t have to do with Japan, but she gives a good look into what it is like for a foreigner living in Tokyo. 

2. Sharla in Japan

Originally from Canada, Sharla has been living in Japan for about 10 years now and has established herself as a prominent JVlogger through that time. She loves anime and Otaku culture (especially Pokemon) and she does a good job introducing life in Japan, as she has done everything from homestay to going to attending a Japanese high school and more. If you want a real look at what life is like in Japan, Sharla is the JVlogger to watch!

3. Micaela

Micaela is another JVlogger from Canada and has also been in Japan for over 10 years. Micalea also attended a Japanese high school when she was younger and then made the decision to move to Japan, eventually attending music school in Fukuoka (Southern Japan). She has done many television appearances and was the former mayor of “Kawaii-ku” in Fukuoka where she has mostly been living. She is very real and recently told her viewers about her experience with Japanese talent agencies and how it wasn’t for her after a while. If you want to experience a different side of Japan besides Tokyo, Micalea is the Jvlogger for you!

4. Rachel and Jun

Rachel and Jun are a American-Japanese married couple who makes videos together all about Japan, intercultural marriages, and  some controversial topics like Homosexuality in Japan, how to date in Japan, etc. They shot up in popularity about 3 or so years ago and they are an adorable couple that covers a wide variety of Japan-related and intercultural topics, so if you are interested in huge range of topics that are well-researched and presented this channel is for you!

5. Texan in Tokyo and Mimei

I couldn’t choose between these last two because they are both good ones to include. Texan in Tokyo (also known as Grace, who is from the U.S.) used to be very active on YouTube, but originally started out as a blogger. She self-published 3 comic books out about life in Japan and intercultural marriages and blogged and video blogged about that and life in Japan and about . About a year ago, she and her Japanese husband decided to leave blogging and YouTube, but hercontent still exist online and are good information on Japan to take a look at!

Mimei is also married to a Japanese man (also a YouTuber, PDRさん), but she doesn’t go into intercultural topics very much from what I know. She calls her followers “Pineapples” and she is more theatrical and artistic about how she makes videos compared to the others. She also does some comedy as well, which is even funnier when her cats and her husband helps and appears! She is very genuine and when you watch her videos it feels like she is talking directly to a friend, so if you want more light watching, she is the YouTuber to watch!

Did the YouTubers you watch make the list? Comment below with who you watch or who you recommend!

Johnny and Associates Case Study- Being Published For the First Time!

Most of you who have read my blog for a while now know that the reason I moved to Japan in the first place was to get my MBA at Doshisha University in their Global MBA program. In order to graduate from the program, writing a thesis is necessary and the topic that I chose was Johnny and Associates.

This was a teaching case on how Johnnys could go international. My initial piece that I wrote was accepted by the school and I graduated in September of 2014. After that, my advisor for the thesis, Tim Craig, put together book of 10 case studies, that included more,  that had to do with the “Cool Japan” initiative, which includes J-pop, Anime, Fashion, Games and more! The book is called “Cool Japan: Case Studies from Japan’s Cultural and Creative Industries” and the chapter that I co-authored, which came from my thesis, is “Johnny & Associates: Japanese Pop Idol Producer Faces a Changing World”. This covers the history of Johnnys, looking into the Idol industry  in Japan and Johnnys business model and explores if Johnnys is able to go abroad or not.

The book is still not published yet, but you can read the online version here. Please feel free to leave comments below! I would love to start a discussion here regarding it.